Aside from being incredibly cool and an all around great guy, Brent Simmons is also the mastermind behind the sensational news reader for Mac, NetNewsWire.

I have been a huge fan of NetNewsWire ever since I first began using it. And the most current release as of this interview (3.0) is fantastic. It’s what a Mac App ought to be. It would be great if all the apps I used worked this outstandingly. The way you can read all the new articles with only the space bar. The way the selector flows through the panels with the use of the arrow keys. It’s all brilliant. B r i l i a n t.

I had a blast conducting this email with Brent. He was polite, smart, speedy and as you’ll see – gave extremely good answers.

The Interview

• • SHAWN BLANC:In my opinion NetNewsWire is far beyond any other news reader out there. Especially in terms of its usability, interface and features. It looks and acts like a Mac App should – simple, clean and responsive.

    What are a few of the key contributing factors that have made NNW version 3.0 into what it is?

     

  • BRENT SIMMONS:From the beginning of NetNewsWire’s development I’ve had a bunch of passionate Mac users who’ve been willing to give me some of their time — I get great feedback, and I take it very seriously.

    Another thing is that I’m a patient developer. I’m willing to try something a whole bunch of different ways until it’s good. That means I write way more code than what makes up the final product — I write code, delete it, write more code, delete it, and so on. This slows me down, for sure, but it’s the only way I know to do a good job.

    And then, even with the feedback and my willingness to iterate, things will slip through: bugs, or user interface that could be improved. I just get right back on my horse and get back to work. For instance, I’m working on 3.1 right now, and I’ve already deleted a bunch of code that was written for 3.0.

    A third thing is that, at heart, I’m an extreme minimalist. An anti-pack-rat. NetNewsWire has a bunch of features, yes, no doubt — but were I not compelled by my temperament to prune and cut and simplify obsessively, it would be, well, a very different app.

    If there was something I could change, it would just be how much time this all takes! I get faster as I continue to progress as a developer, but I’m still not particularly fast. (And, as my colleagues have surely noted, I’m utterly incapable of doing even remotely accurate time estimates.)

  • >SHAWN: This may be dorky, but my favorite feature of the whole program has got to be that little arrow that shoots across from left to right when you double-click or arrow out from a headline to its permalink. Where did that idea come from and how did it end up in the final version? Were there any other ideas you had for that feature?
  • BRENT: The general idea — that there should be some visible feedback when opening a headline in the browser — came from a NetNewsWire beta tester. (Possibly from more than one.) I’d credit the person, but it was long enough ago that I’m not sure who it was.The idea of doing the arrow — well, that was me. I wanted to kind of point to what was happening, hence the arrow.

    The funny thing about this feature is that feedback has been really split. I’ve heard from some folks that they love it, and a few others have said it’s cheesy. You can’t please everyone!

  • SHAWN: I assume you use NNW for your news reading. So what is your favorite feature?
  • BRENT: As a NetNewsWire user, my favorite feature is a very simple thing — the way the space bar works. I can read all my news just by hitting the space bar. (For those who don’t know: the space bar scrolls the current news item. If there’s nothing more to scroll, it goes to the next unread item.)As a Mac developer my favorite feature is the way it works with other applications such as MarsEdit, ecto, Twitterrific, VoodooPad, Cocoalicious, Pukka, Postr, and WebnoteHappy. There’s a little API I came up with to connect newsreaders to weblog editors, bookmark managers, and similar apps — and lots of apps have adopted this API and support it. This makes it easy to use NetNewsWire as kind of a hub: news items come in, and then you can route them to other places. I’ve always been a proponent of developers making their apps work together, and simple connections like this can be a big deal to users.
  • SHAWN: Since version 1.0 came out how has the development of NetNewsWire changed? What have you learned by being in the shoes of the developer behind such a smash-hit product?
  • BRENT: In some ways nothing has changed. I get up in the morning, groggily find my way downstairs, make coffee, sing to the cat, and go to the same home office I’ve been going to since 1999, since way back when I worked for UserLand Software.Some small things have changed, of course — I am not still using the same Mac (a 350 Mhz G4) on which NetNewsWire was originally developed back in 2002. I’ve switched from cvs to Subversion. No more glass monitor: Cinema Display instead. No more ProjectBuilder: now we have Xcode.

    And I have learned a ton in the past five years.

    One of the biggest things is to learn better how to say no, which is one of the hardest things for me to do.

    And I’ve learned a bunch of small things about human nature, about how people use computers — one of the surprising things I learned is about how some people are digital pack rats and like to save everything. (Which is the opposite of how I am.)

    I’ve learned, most importantly, that I am not the representative or typical user of my own software — and no one user is, either, even if they think they are. And most people do tend to think they’re a typical user, that everybody else uses a given piece of software the same way they do.

    But, most importantly, I learned something great about Mac users — they love to root for you. If you make software that they like, that makes their day better or more interesting, then you couldn’t have a better crew in your corner than Mac users.

  • SHAWN: You’re absolutely right. Mac users do root for one another. In fact, that is exactly why I wanted to do this interview.Is that one of the reasons for the Lite version of NNW’as a way of giving back to those who root for you? Or was it a marketing hook?

     

  • BRENT: One of the cool things about the Mac market is that generosity is rewarded. The interests of Mac users in general and my own interests are just about the same thing. So, when I make a decision like that, I first think about what Mac users in general would like — then I check to see if that works for me too.The Lite version is an expression of my own generosity, and it’s good for marketing. Both. I consider myself highly lucky to work in a field where doing the right thing, the thing that feels good to do, is also good for me.

    And, by the way, I love NetNewsWire Lite. I think it’s a cool app.

  • SHAWN: I love it too. I used it for a long time until purchasing 3.0.Speaking of the lite version, how is the development of 3.0 Lite?

     

  • BRENT: We’re skipping right to 3.1. I’m working on NetNewsWire 3.1, and we plan to release Lite 3.1 at or near the same time as the full version. I can’t wait — but I’ve got a bunch of work to get done first.
  • SHAWN: What are some of the updates we’ll see in NNW 3.1 full and Lite?
  • BRENT: Some of the new features are in the betas — there’s an HTML archiving feature, for instance, that I think is pretty cool. It saves your news items on disk as HTML files, which can be read by any browser, and which can be searched from within NetNewsWire or via Spotlight. The idea behind this feature is that it doesn’t lock you in: you have an archive of your news that isn’t tied to NetNewsWire.A major focus of 3.1 is, of course, bug fixes. Already, even in beta, it’s a much better app than 3.0.

    And there will be a couple surprises, too.

  • SHAWN: The HTML archiving could come in super handy. I can easily see myself using that – especially to collect articles and resources for future reference.And surprises, eh? Are you looking for any new sites to add to the default subscription list?

     

  • BRENT: I’m not actively looking for new default sites. However, people are free to ask to be included as a default, and I can be convinced, sometimes. There is also the Sites Drawer — there are roughly a couple thousand feeds in there now, and I’m always happy to add more.
  • SHAWN: How do you think NNW will be affected by the RSS integration coming in Leopard’s Mail.app?
  • BRENT: When Safari came out with RSS reading, NetNewsWire’s sales jumped up. We may see the same thing this time.There will always be very basic users of RSS for whom Safari and Mail are plenty. The important thing from my point of view is that Apple has given RSS a seal of approval by including support in various products. That’s worked to the advantage of NetNewsWire, definitely.

    But of course I don’t really know what will happen — I can only guess based on what’s happened in the past.

  • SHAWN: Now that you mention it – it was the RSS integration within Safari that got me out of bookmarking my favorite sites. Then I found out you could subscribe to lots of blog feeds and then I discoverd I needed a dedicated app … and that’s how I found NNW.SHAWN: Earlier you mentioned one of the biggest things you’ve learned since NNW 1.0 launched was how to say no. Can you share an example?
  • BRENT: As a for instance: when I was originally doing syncing, back before SyncServices existed, well before the NewsGator acquisition, I allowed myself to be convinced that I had to do FTP syncing along with .Mac. That was a mistake, and I should have resisted FTP syncing. I’ve learned that the consequences of decisions like that can least for years. I always thought it was important to be careful — now Iâ’m ever more convinced, even more careful.
  • SHAWN: Why resist the FTP syncing? Wouldn’t that have cut out all the users who didn’t have a .Mac account? The multiple-mac synching provided through NewsGator is one of the primary reasons I use NNW. I spend just about as much time away from my office and on my PowerBook as I do in my office on my Mac Pro.
  • BRENT: I think syncing is highly, terrifically, hugely, massively important. It’s also difficult.When I did syncing via FTP I was listening to people saying things like this, “If you do syncing via .Mac only, then reviewers will criticize the app heavily for not including a non-.Mac option.” (Not a direct quote, but the feedback was along those lines.)

    So I was afraid to do just .Mac. (This was before the NewsGator acquisition, before NewsGator even had a syncing platform, as I recall.) I made FTP an option, because I was afraid not to.

    But there are a couple problems with that:

    1. Once you add one option like FTP, the door is now open for feature requests for SFTP, WebDAV, local file system, and so on. People expect that we’ll support all of these, even though every addition is a bunch of work for not that much benefit, and it takes time away from doing cooler new features that more people would use.

    2. Syncing is difficult to do well without a real syncing engine and an API. NewsGator has an engine and API. .Mac has SyncServices, which any developer can use to implement syncing. FTP has no such sync engine and no API. I want to switch the .Mac syncing over to using SyncServices, so it can be better — but then what about the FTP syncing feature? Can I take it away? If I do, will I have a revolt on my hands?

    I have removed features before: it’s do-able. But it’s definitely a case-by-case basis. Were I to take away FTP syncing, a certain set of users would assume that it was mandated by NewsGator management, that this was some evil, anti-choice step. Which wouldn’t be true at all (nobody at work has ever suggested I take it away) — but that perception is something extra I have to consider. (Especially because, on the web, nefarious speculation becomes widely-distributed fact at the speed of light.)

    So, finally, I realize that it’s one of those things that I have to continue with. But I wish I had made the decision, way back then, not to do FTP syncing.

    I would have justified it this way: Mac users for whom syncing is important are already using .Mac to sync contacts and calendars and so on. The $99 (or whatever it is) for .Mac is a very small price to pay for something as valuable as syncing. (That is, for anyone who values their time even minimally.)

    Anyway, I don’t want to make more of this than it is. It’s just an illustration how decisions last, and how they should be made with care.

  • SHAWN: Obviously you’re a Mac fan. How long have you been a Mac user? What’s your current Mac setup?
  • BRENT: I’ve been an Apple fanboy for 27 years. My very first computer was an Apple II Plus, bought way back in 1980 by my parents, who were both programmers, who taught me how to program.I started using Macs in the late ’80s, when I was an editor at the Seattle Central Community College newspaper. We used Quark XPress to put together the paper.

    Right now I mostly use two computers. I use my 17″ MacBook Pro for email, reading news, posting to my weblog, taking notes, calendar, all that normal stuff.

    My development machine is a 17″ Intel Core Duo iMac with an external Cinema Display hooked up. It’s the iMac that Apple generously provided upon return of the Developer Transition Kit. (I’m thinking of upgrading to something faster, since full builds of NetNewsWire take about six minutes on the iMac.)

    I have an Apple Extended Keyboard II hooked up to my development machine, via a Griffin ADB-to-USB adapter. If anything ever happens to this keyboard, my career is over. (I’m exaggerating. I hope.)

    I also have a 17″ PowerBook I use for making sure I haven’t broken anything on PowerPC machines. It’s hooked up to an external monitor too, a 21″ Sony Trinitron. Beautiful glass display, still better-looking than any LCD.

    And there are random machines in closets, of course. The oldest is I think a Centris 650.

  • SHAWN: Your home office set-up sounds outrageous. I would love to post a picture of your setup if you have one.
  • BRENT: Here is a picture of my workspace — the main part, anyway, the machines I actually sit in front of. (Not shown is my PPC laptop, Sony monitor, printer, fax machine, scanner, etc.)

• Some notes:1. The left picture is from the opening of Safeco Field in Seattle. It’s a very cool Jacob Lawrence painting titled “Strike.”

  2. The right picture is from the moon landing.

  3. There are two Eddy awards (for NetNewsWire) kind of hidden behind my iMac.

  4. The weird tall-ish white thing is a HappyLite Sunshine Simulator. It shines 10,000 lumens on me for several hours every morning — it’s how I cope with Seattle’s not being the sunniest of cities.

  5. The tables are heavy and sturdy, from Boeing Surplus.

• SHAWN: Why have you chosen to work from home? Is it in order to save on office space rent or because you want to?And you work with your wife too, correct? I bet that must be great.

   

• BRENT: Ever since I was a kid I pictured myself working at home. I thought it would be as a novelist rather than a programmer, but it’s about the same thing: I sit in a chair in front of a computer and make things up.I like people and I like meeting people and hanging out. But I don’t like working face-to-face and day-to-day with people. I’m quite introverted that way. I just find it draining, and always have, going way back to elementary school.

  I sometimes think of it this way: there are dog people and cat people. Pack animals, with their politics and pecking order, on one hand — and solitary hunters, camouflaged in the tall grass, on the other. I can be gregarious, and I’m certainly competitive, but I live further along the feline side of the spectrum than most folks. Which is not at all unusual for geeks.

  I make exception for my wife, of course. We work well together. And it is indeed great that we’re both home all day.

• SHAWN: You travel to Denver a few times a year, right? That’s where I grew up and went to school. Isn’t Colorado great? Have you ever been on the slopes and/or eaten at Chipotle?
• BRENT: I haven’t hit the slopes — but I’ve been a couple times to Chipotle. There are some big Chipotle fans at NewsGator.I haven’t seen a whole lot outside 16th St., but I like what I’ve seen. Denver reminds me of Seattle in the ’80s, which was a pretty cool place to be. Seattle in the ’80s was a bit smaller and quieter-seeming than it is now — but it had this underground explosion of art and music and technology which really broke out in the ’90s. My outsider’s hunch is that Denver may be on the verge of a similar thing. We’ll see.

More Interviews

Brent’s is just one of a handful of interviews with some cool folks.

Glenn Wolsey writes a stellar web and technology weblog from Rotorua, New Zealand. He’s 15 years old and is a fellow Mac Pro guru. In less than 12 months his site has made quite a name for itself and Glenn is becoming a recognized authority when it comes to content writing, blog creation, Apple products and software.

Additionally, Glenn recently began publishing a video blog, The Glenn Wolsey Show where he answers tech-related questions which are sent in from viewers. It’s short, clever, and makes a great addition to anyone’s podcast library.

• SHAWN: You’ve talked a bit about freelance work on The Glenn Wolsey Show. How exactly did you get into doing freelance work at only 15 years old?
• GLENN: I really had no certain point in time where I started freelancing, it gradually evolved into what Im doing today.I’m guessing the first point in me becoming a part time freelancer would be working for large media company Parkside Media in New Zealand on their publication Macguide. After I started that role with Parkside, other jobs started trickling in. Ranging from copy-writing for Mac software, to consultation work with people wanting to start their own corporate blogs.

  Now, here I am today, freelancing part time both for myself and for others. On the personal side, I’m blogging a few times weekly at GlennWolsey.com, while trying to get a tech video online daily with my video show. On the corporate side, I’m blogging for a few sites, doing a little advertising sales for a few clients, and just signed a contract with Parkside Media last week to be the Editor of Macguide online.

• SHAWN: How much of the freelance work you’ve done did you have to go hunting for and how much of it has come to you?
• GLENN: I would say 80% of the freelance work I do has sought after me and landed straight into my inbox. I don’t have enough time to take on extra projects, so I don’t look for them. Most find me and I struggle to say no.
• SHAWN: So is it primarily your time restraints that force you to turn down jobs or do you try to pick the ones that are more interesting and/or pay more?
• GLENN: If there was another 12 hours in the day, I’d be able to take on so much more, so as it is, I’m just taking on projects I’m really interested in. No point in working on something I don’t enjoy.
• SHAWN: How much impact has glennwolsey.com had on the open doors you’ve had for freelance work?
• GLENN: I would say it has opened huge doors in the terms of opening me up to freelance work. Without it, I don’t believe I would have worked on as many exciting projects as I have with clients.
• SHAWN: I assume that the majority of the work you’re doing is writing and editing, correct? Do you think this could be a long term career for you? If so, what are you’re hopes for what things may look like 5 years from now?
• GLENN: Correct, 75% is straight out blogging and copy-writing. I’ve just signed a contract with Parkside Media as an employee, a large media company over this side of the world – I’m the new editor of publication Macguide (which is online now). Down the line I’d love to be able to mix my two loves together, photography and writing and turn them into a full time position.
• SHAWN: I know right now you’re doing your Desktop Fridays on glennwolsey.com, but other than that do you have any ideas floating around to incorporate photography with writing even more?
• GLENN: I’m hoping to start blogging about Photography a little more in the near future, more along the lines of gear and then the actual more technical aspects of photography. I certainly have some ideas that I want to do with the blog, it’s putting them into action which is the hard thing.
• SHAWN: The pillar topics you’ve covered so far primarily regarding productivity, Apple and blogging have been excellent. I think photography would be an easy addition and I think you would do great at writing about it.Why do you say putting those ideas into action will be hard? I know when I have an idea or a new element I want to incorporate I usually think about it for a few days until I know what I want and then just go for it. Do you have a process when writing new posts or incorporating new elements/aspects of your site?
• GLENN: Thanks! I certainly think I can spread my knowledge a little further if I start to blog about photography on a regular basis, incorporating it into my overall blogging spectrum on a more regular basis.Blog posts are easy, I write them, I look them over, I click publish. I try do this once every two days, my target it to post every single day in the future, but with all other work, every two days will have to do for now.

  Putting ideas into action in the form of new site features are a little harder, especially since I write for my audience, not me specifically. I need each feature to be justified by my readership, I try to research deeply to see if the feature is going to add something to the site, or create clutter.

• SHAWN: I think writing less versus more is definitely an acceptable standard for readers. A site that I like will have to go at least a month or two before I unsubscribe. I’ve still got Macintalk in my feed reader even though it’s been almost two months since Andreas updated. In my opinion, writing a post every other day or two can actually build momentum and expectation.I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a poll on your site. So what are some things you do to research your readership?
• GLENN: I’ve previously made a couple of posts starting with the title “Reader Feedback.” Along with those few posts, I typically use Twitter to poll friends on what they think of new ideas.I completely agree [about posting frequency], I don’t want to be writing because I feel I have to each and every day, however some days I might get a few good ideas and feel like I need to write and have my say on more than one topic, it’s not an unknown for me to write two pieces in a day on some occasions.
• SHAWN: Let’s talk a bit more about your freelance work. You have been hired by several people to help create and edit blog content, and you are now the editor for Macguide. What are some of the basic elements of quality online writing?
• GLENN: Online writing is much easier than writing in the print format. Publishing is instantaneous, there are no huge publishing costs, and there are no strict word counts to keep to. I try to keep my writing brief and to the point, no one wants to sit down and read a 1500 word article when they can learn the exact same amount of information in 750 words. Keep it short, keep it blunt, keep it simple. Tell stories, use quotes, and entertain your reader with important stats & info.
• SHAWN: I think that may be the answer and the problem to online writing. Because of the massive amount of information being produced on the web it is often a service to the reader to keep articles clear and succinct. But should that always be the case?What about the art of good writing and journalism?

  I almost wonder if The Net has taught us we should write short and quick posts in order to cater to those who want to consume the most amount of information in the least amount of time, thus the nobility of a blogger writing something wonderful and captivating has been lost.

  Obviously not all well written posts have to be long, but what do you think are some ways we can still serve the reader while honoring good writing?

• GLENN: I think it really depends on your audience and overall topic.Tech-savvy readers reading blogs on topics such as the internet, technology, gadgets, photography, etc – are all after the shorter posts because there’s so much going on and so much to keep up on in the respective industries. For some of the more ’boutique’ topics, I believe it is worth getting more in-depth with writing as topics are less broad.
• SHAWN: Do you write anything that isn’t tech savvy?
• GLENN: Nothing that gets published. As a student I have dozens of reports to write each term, this is pretty much the only non-technical work I get into.
• SHAWN: You recently began doing the Glenn Wolsey show. Do you feel that having an additional presence on the web has helped increase exposure for yourself and thus your services as a writer and editor?
• GLENN: I think it has increased my exposure in a different industry in a form, which is something I’ve wanted to do for a while. I’m no longer ‘just the blogger.’ There’s something else out there which is putting me in the field. I’m really enjoying producing the show, it’s probably the most fun I’ve had with a project online in a fairly long time.
• SHAWN: I enjoy the show, too. A lot of podcasts I’m subscribed to I rarely get the chance to listen to or watch because they’re too long. I like that yours are usually under 5 minutes. It’s just enough time to take a break and then get back to work.Do you have any plans for the show other than having fun, selling some ad space and increasing your exposure?
• GLENN: Teaching people and getting the community really involved with the project as a whole. I’ve pretty much labeled the show in my mind as a ‘community run show’ because of the fact I pretty much am just answering technology questions sent into me by viewers.
• SHAWN: Are you getting a good amount of response from the show? Are most of the emails from people that already read your blog or are you gaining a new audience? What emails make the cut? Have you gotten any that are totally off the wall?
• GLENN: I am, I’ve mad dozens upon dozens of emails from viewers saying they enjoy the show, and more importantly, many requests which will take me months to fulfill. No totally off the wall emails yet, but I’m sure they’ll be on the way.One email I keep getting is, “what are those lamps on your desk?” I’m almost sick of the question.
• SHAWN: What are some questions you’ll be answering in upcoming shows?
• GLENN: My thoughts about .Mac, my general camera to computer workflow, where to get free WordPress themes, how to change icons on the Mac, and more all in the next 2 weeks.
• SHAWN: And of course, the obligatory Glenn Wolsey question: Tell us about your Mac Setup.
• GLENN: My current Mac setup includes a Mac Pro, and 30″ Apple Cinema Display.More specifically, the Mac Pro packs in these specs 2 x 2.66Ghz, 3GB RAM, 250GB + 500GB HDD. Alongside the 30″ Apple Cinema Display I’m running a 17″ Dell as a communications window, I’d love to change this for another Cinema Display down the line.

  Powering my audio system is the Altec Lansing FX6021 speakers, and I also own a handful of various iPods.

More Interviews

Glenn’s is just one of a handful of interviews with some cool folks.